Detective Ulti
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Post by Detective Ulti on Dec 30, 2014 18:12:16 GMT
Some of you may be aware of "The Hierarchy" system in the Main Universe RP. Myself and some others have seen some flaws in said system and here we propose our ideas to fix them.
STEP 1. RANKS
In order to fix the Hierarchy the ranking system is priority as with 80 members and growing, it means that it is becoming outdated. For example, promotions are a big issue. Due to the way of people being judged by the leader on their achievements is one of the reasons for this. In order to fix it the idea of promotion templates is being put forward. The community would vote on a set of required achievements to gain each rank, but extreme requirements be it low or high would be out of the question, so it isn't extreme easy or hard to gain a rank.
This system would be the points system but evolved, you get a certain amount of points for doing certain tasks, and then these are added up, if you get enough on the template you post on the thread and the leader will rank you up.
At the moment it is something like this:
BATTLES: Victory in Combat: 2 Points Losing or Tying in Combat: 1 Point.
MEDICS: Healing Minor Wounds: 0.5 Points Healing Major Wounds: 1 Point Healing Someone Else's Self-Inflicted Wounds: 0.25 - 0.5 Points NOTE: You will not get points for healing yourself or one of your OC's.
INVENTORS: WIP War-changing Invention: 3 Points
Now, the new template system may influence spamming achievements, to avoid this we have the Lock-Out System. After achieving a rank, you will be locked out for a certain amount of time depending on the rank, the higher, the longer the wait. Any achievements gained during said lock-out period will not be valid for your OC to get a promotion.
Options: After careful thinking we have come to the conclusion of a choice. Said choice is between our proposed template system and one similar to that back on TFU. This would involve MULTIPLE people instead of a single INDIVIDUAL deciding who should be moved up and not. Of course selected people may have a guideline to follow similar to a template, but this is so that people can't rank up faster by getting extra points. By having people watching and promoting people this would mean nobody could rank up at an unreasonable speed.
In the comments please post your choice between "Templates" and "Guidelines".
2. HIGHER RANKS
We are aware of Higher ranks, such as Heads and the Core members. We believe this gives people powers that others cannot gain as these positions only allow one person to fill it. To fix this we intend to wipe out these ranks, bar the Leader rank, however we suggest a vote for a new leader, but a leader vote is not mandatory, nor if it is allowed does it mean that the current leader will not be leader any more, they will be in the vote too.
In order to deal with removing a large portion of the rank tree, people in said positions will be demoted to one found fitting. In combination with this demotion, a mass demotion will occur, in which people above a certain rank will all be moved to a set lower one, and anyone below or in that rank will keep theirs. However, we know people that are heads may feel upset by this action, and will be given their own division to serve in. This means they will have a separate rank in the main ranking system, but they will be the leader of a separate division, related to their previous Head ranking. This will also apply to Sub-factions.
3. What's the point, Why and What will happen with this?
This will be updated if new suggestions or problems or even other topics relating to this are put up, but the reason behind this is because the way the ranks are set up does not encourage new people to join the Main RP or to try hard to rank up within it. We hope that this is looked into enough and is opted to replace the current system.
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Post by Bruiser Maximus on Jan 1, 2015 1:47:04 GMT
I don't necessarily mind, the Heads thing, instead of being heads, you become leaders of your specific profession, as well as still having your normal rank. This is pretty close to what we have now.
However, I think the top portion of points and all that, it gets way too complicated, and maybe sets too ridged and specific of guidelines for promotions.
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Vampyricon
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Post by Vampyricon on Jan 1, 2015 5:56:35 GMT
Personally, I'm fine with the current ranks, but medics need a buff, maybe major wound -> 2 points and minor -> 1 point?
In addition to that, major and minor wounds need defining, I would define major wounds as wounds that may cause death if left untreated.
Capturing key targets from the opposite team should also be worth something.
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Thrasher
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Post by Thrasher on Jan 1, 2015 6:56:14 GMT
People having higher ranks and then keeping them indefinitely is perhaps an issue.
What if instead of outright removing them, we ran votes every season?
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Detective Ulti
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Post by Detective Ulti on Jan 1, 2015 11:16:18 GMT
Sounds like an idea Thrasher.
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Post by Bruiser Maximus on Jan 1, 2015 14:58:12 GMT
We already vote for a new Prime almost every year, and then the new Prime selects the ranks. Running elections for all of the heads may be interesting though, and now more organized with the polls. Honestly I might be quite interested in that. Kind of like electing senators. However, I do believe Magnus and SiC of each faction respectively should be the choice of the Prime/Leader rather than elected, the leader and the Magnus have to be on the same page in order for things to work properly, and it's best for the Leader to choose someone who can best complete what he wants.
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Shadowstrike
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Post by Shadowstrike on Jan 1, 2015 23:47:02 GMT
I've not voted on this and am trying to avoid doing so till I'm sure I can make an educated decision.
First question I guess would be how does the point system fix the issues currently created in the hierarchy, wouldn't it actually create an even larger gap between the new and old players as the older players would have more achivements. For example Shadow in TFU would have a lot of points actually I believe it was near the 100 mark on my original point scheme, most of the newer but active rpers didn't even have 20 points. Would that mean Shadow would be stuck on his own rank because no one was close or would ranks have to be so low that anyone could get them?
Second question is how do you balance the point system if Medics and Inventors are rewarded for battle as well as their own profession, what's to stop them from ranking up at a much quicker speed than others. For example my medic OC Banshee participates in a big fight with four other Decepticons and wins, she then has to repair them all with a varied amount of injuries. In contrast to the others that's a minimum of 4 points if they all have minimum injuries and 6 points if they have major injuries.
Third question is who's viable for the leadership vote that your suggesting, I know personally I wouldn't want an Autobot with a Decepticon secondary OC being up for becoming leader of the Decepticons if it's obvious they care about the Autobot's more. Also who's allowed to vote in these elections could the Autobot/Decepticon primary players dictate the leader of the other faction simply because their's more of them?
Fourth question what would removing the core ranks exactly do with the purpose of making a better or fairer system, effectively your removing a Second in Command or Third in Command who could look after the faction during holiday time for the leader. Should the elected leader be forced to labour looking after a faction full time regardless of real life?
Fifth question is what's the point of removing the heads if your just going to make them leaders of a division... what's the difference between a head of department and leader of a division (department). Do remember that head's of departments still got an official ranking.
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Post by Bruiser Maximus on Jan 1, 2015 23:56:34 GMT
I actually have something, not saying anyone has to agree, but what if someone has relatively equal interest in both factions, who (if anyone) decides who is viable, and would this hinder a newer player (even if he may have great ideas for the RP) from participating, and could this even lead to corruption, where people aren't allowing others to enter the election because they could be a threat?
Not saying any of this would happen, but it is possible that it could.
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Detective Ulti
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Post by Detective Ulti on Jan 2, 2015 0:03:44 GMT
Points would all be completely reset, as I said with the demotion and such it would level the playing field. Nobody would have extra points and we'd all start on roughly even footing. The scaling of the ranks like I said would be up for public vote. In short, the general public would decide how the ranks were gained. Once again the mass demotion wouldn't plop Shadow on his own rank, as if he was above the rank of which all above would be demoted he would be moved down to that rank with everyone else similar to him.
For your second point, like I said the lockouts would take effect. If Banshee were to rank up at such a pace then the lockouts would occur and slow her down (The length that said lockouts would occur for will be decided later). Going back to my earlier response it would once again depend on the vote that would decide what she would need to get to move up.
For the leadership vote I am aware of what happened on TFU, and it would most likely be something similar to that, with those getting the most votes being given the leader rank, like with Shockwave/Night-fall and Watchman.
With the removal of 2nd/3rds it would mean that we remove footholds of power, by this I mean a rank which gives someone power nobody else can achieve. However with your point of having a leader full-time, the autobot and decepticon armies seem to be running fine with Watch on holiday and Shockwave planning his return. But if things do escalate I recommend a stand-in, perhaps the person who placed second in the leader-ship vote to jump from whatever rank they currently have to temporary leader in the main leader's absence.
Removing heads is because on TFU, I noticed many heads not actually having a rank on the DHC/Autobot Ranks. This meant that a medical head had control over soldiers. While they may have achieved the normal rank pre-ceding this, it only makes it easier to move them out, and also it only gives them power over people performing their task of command or in their division.
If you have any more questions or I did not answer any of your previously asked questions as you would've liked, just tell me and I will respond in the mot helpful way possible.
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Detective Ulti
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Post by Detective Ulti on Jan 2, 2015 0:07:21 GMT
A I have just seen your post Bruiser, I will respond in this separate post.
You needn't worry about that, as like I said in my earlier response to Shadow, it will function like previous elections. People will put their name forward and the public will vote for the one they seem is best out of the candidates.
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Post by Bruiser Maximus on Jan 2, 2015 0:09:06 GMT
I have a question Ulti, do we lose the Transformers aesthetic losing ranks such as SiC, and Magnus? Also, if we are all on even footing, doesn't that mean, that your past achievements have less meaning, or even no meaning?
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Detective Ulti
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Post by Detective Ulti on Jan 2, 2015 0:12:09 GMT
Yes we may lose those aesthetic titles. However, it may be selected that the stand-ins will still carry the title as the Transformers specific titles are not something I want to lose, therefore I will see what I can do. As for the dulling of past achievements and placing on equal footing, it has to be asked, "Do we want to keep what we accomplished in a much higher regard or encourage new RP'ers?" as we did when deciding this.
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Thrasher
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Post by Thrasher on Jan 2, 2015 0:15:27 GMT
None of this fixes anything, imbalance between older users and new ones will still exist. A reset only fixes things right now, but does nothing for the future.
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Detective Ulti
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Post by Detective Ulti on Jan 2, 2015 0:16:25 GMT
Then this may perhaps be a cycle Thrasher. That's if the idea goes through.
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Thrasher
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Post by Thrasher on Jan 2, 2015 0:18:05 GMT
Repeated resets? Then that makes any sense of progress gone.
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Detective Ulti
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Post by Detective Ulti on Jan 2, 2015 0:18:39 GMT
I am aware... which is why I'll be giving it a lot more thought in the very near future.
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Post by Bruiser Maximus on Jan 2, 2015 0:21:43 GMT
Perhaps, every year after the election of the leader, a new reset with the new regime.
I must say Ulti you make some sense. It worries me that in the past there was a bit of a 2012 superiority complex. (at least from what I saw, not everbody, but a few people.) I believe some still feel that way, that's not good for new RPers. Thank you Ulti.
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Detective Ulti
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Post by Detective Ulti on Jan 2, 2015 0:25:32 GMT
Perhaps not every year... but like I said I will look into it and discuss the matter with some other people to see what they can do to help.
Thank you Bruiser. I'm trying my best to bring new RP'ers into the MURP, as I know from past experiences it can be a a scary place to hop in on.
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Shadowstrike
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Post by Shadowstrike on Jan 2, 2015 0:28:33 GMT
I understand the idea of the mass demotion Ultra but I'm not sure I explained why I used Shadow as an example, imagine the mass resets happened and then I got a ton of accomplishments as Shadow over a set of time for example a year. Wouldn't the point system put anyone coming in a year later at a massive disadvantage as I would have a year worth of points, in contrast to the current system where players who are doing well are rewarded on a person by person basis.
The lockout would of course slow Banshee down but wouldn't they also slow everyone else down. If she's able to make points as both a soldier and medic isn't she still going to quickly outrank those who are just soldiers who suffer the same lockout but can only get points for combat actions?
The leadership vote allowed everyone to apply and everyone to vote infact some people applied despite never rping before on the forums. So your suggesting no restrictions?
I'm not really sure how to argue the removal of the 2nd position as I do believe it's a necessary part of a faction to have a backup. I understand people being against one person position's but by this same argument shouldn't we remove the leader role as well as his backups, like we all can't be primes so why not remove that rank?
Head of Departments where supposed to and in most cases did have an actual rank for example Bruiser was head of Science meaning all science projects he had control over, however he was also a captain what meant in other scenarios such as battle he had to take orders from people such as General Astrinal.
Edit: I've just seen the mention of repeat resets. If the rp's ranks continually reset what's the point of having ranks as they would have to be pretty low to reach the higher ranks in time for the next reset, I know personally I would hate to spend an entire year trying to become general then the reset happens and I'm a private again.
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Post by Bruiser Maximus on Jan 2, 2015 0:33:07 GMT
I understand the idea of the mass demotion Ultra but I'm not sure I explained why I used Shadow as an example, imagine the mass resets happened and then I got a ton of accomplishments as Shadow over a set of time for example a year. Wouldn't the point system put anyone coming in a year later at a massive disadvantage as I would have a year worth of points, in contrast to the current system where players who are doing well are rewarded on a person by person basis. The lockout would of course slow Banshee down but wouldn't they also slow everyone else down. If she's able to make points as both a soldier and medic isn't she still going to quickly outrank those who are just soldiers who suffer the same lockout but can only get points for combat actions? The leadership vote allowed everyone to apply and everyone to vote infact some people applied despite never rping before on the forums. So your suggesting no restrictions? I'm not really sure how to argue the removal of the 2nd position as I do believe it's a necessary part of a faction to have a backup. I understand people being against one person position's but by this same argument shouldn't we remove the leader role as well as his backups, like we all can't be primes so why not remove that rank? Head of Departments where supposed to and in most cases did have an actual rank for example Bruiser was head of Science meaning all science projects he had control over, however he was also a captain what meant in other scenarios such as battle he had to take orders from people such as General Astrinal. My only thing right now Striky is who's applying for leader who hasn't RPed, this is completely RP now. Before we had game people, now that part is gone and it's completely RP.
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