Vampyricon
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Post by Vampyricon on Jan 10, 2016 14:47:40 GMT
The scientific community generally believes that eyes evolved when our common ancestors lived underwater. So "visible light" to us just happens to be light that refracts well underwater, and we kept it even if we live on land now
Problem is, Cybertronians are created by Primus, and haven't evolved from organisms who have lived in water, and their optics would obviously be different from ours. So why isn't their "visible light" different from ours?
We interpret light with a wavelength of 390 nanometers as red, and a wavelength of 700 nanometers as blue. Why can't Cybertronians see light in the microwave and the gamma ray parts of the spectrum? That would make our visible light in the middle of their vision and their brain modules likely interpret that as "green". Or maybe their range doesn't even include our visible spectrum, and that would make our entire planet black (mostly).
So, thoughts? Do we design our OCs with "radio waves" as a color? Or are we just gonna assume their visible spectrum's the same as ours?
EDIT: I admit, the title does seem misleading, what I mean is, why don't everything humans see in various colours only show up as green/black to Cybertronians?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 15:14:52 GMT
First, that is a weird question, but interesting IMO.
Second. I'll take this about, can Cybertronian see the light that is beyond the human range? I think it is possible, even, we dont have to go further to see the examples that mother nature has gave us. Birds, reptiles and other animals can see the UV light while humans can't. Why? we have to remember he have 3 kind of receptor in our eyes:red, blue, and green, but birds and another animas have 4, and to get the most spectacular example, we have pistol shrimp with more tan 10 kind of eye receptors. So, the colors that a living being can see depends of which kind of receptors they have. If they are in lack of certain light receptors, I can imagine,the color would be modified, or in the last , t see ony in grey scale a certain kind of tone. But the kind of light receptors might change according to the function of every cybertronian. Maybe a flyer could have a different range than a miner.
But if you want to move this kind of knowledge to RP, I'd find it a bit difficult since most people treat cybertronians as humans with metal bodies, and many of their actions are very humanized like eating, reproduction, hobbies, etc, (I'm not sure if this is good or not).
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Post by Energon Vlada on Jan 10, 2016 21:46:03 GMT
Well, Cybertronians as species are very similar to the Human kind, maybe that's the reason?
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Vampyricon
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Post by Vampyricon on Jan 11, 2016 4:15:45 GMT
Well, Cybertronians as species are very similar to the Human kind, maybe that's the reason? My point is: why are Cybertronians so similar to humans? We don't have a common ancestor, so there's no reason we should be similar, at least from an evolutionary perspective. So why don't Cybertronians see in the infrared or ultraviolet or even the entire electromagnetic spectrum?
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Backbeat
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Post by Backbeat on Jan 11, 2016 5:30:10 GMT
Suspension of disbelief and a wizard did it...
Are you happy now?
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Post by Sparkflare on Jan 11, 2016 8:07:30 GMT
I think this topic has revolve around biology of the eye.
So first speculation on why cybertronians can see like us. Cybertronians do see something else in the spectrum, yet their processor changes the picture in our visible light. Similar as to how are eyes makes us see upside down except our brians flip the picure so that we see upright.
The second is that like the iris is similar to colour of optics. So the iris is what makes us see. It should also be stated that an iris comes in many different colours just like a cybertonians optics. So at some point of history the cybertronian race may have been seeing in black and green for a few years until they perfected the formula of making optics to see in visible light. Remember Cybertronians are more advanced than humans as a spieces and culture they can build their own species in less than 9 months.
But in the end there is only one way as too why cybertronians can see in visible light because so it's easier for kids to understand what exactly a Cybertronian sees when we look through their eyes.
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Ulti
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Post by Ulti on Jan 11, 2016 18:02:10 GMT
Space magic and the fact that nobody really cares. Maybe they see things in whatever you want to believe they do. Or maybe the reason they see like us is because they have other sensors to view infrared. Maybe all of Cybertronian life evolved from the sea of rust when it actually had water
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Whirl
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Post by Whirl on Jan 11, 2016 19:02:14 GMT
Well, we don't often see things directly through their visors, and when they do it IS often different.
Scraplets in Prime had a kind of metal-detector/heat sensor vision, they've been shown to have zoom and targetting and heat sensor vision, and hell, Ultra Magnus has a scanner that automatically brings up somebody's criminal record as soon as he sees them.
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Avernus
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Post by Avernus on Jan 12, 2016 13:51:38 GMT
Simple answer: Because the writers don't overthink things like you do. It's unnecessary to delve into things such as that, especially science fiction where a GOD created beings.
Long answer:
Because being mechanical organisms, with their own sort of technological biology, Cybertronians were created to be efficient and have various abilities. If we only saw black and green, visibility would be poor as monochromatic schemes limit the ability to distinguish objects due to blending in with each other. Having a full array of colors of light helps them see things cleanly.
If Microwaves and Gamma waves were visible to them, things would look messier with all of the various waves bouncing and passing through everywhere. So limit it to a select range that benefits the species instead of giving it unnecessary headaches.
As for what Whirl said, visors are not optics, thus cannot be compared as even the same thing. Scraplets did indeed have some sort of metal detecting vision, marking metal but ignoring all else. All Cybertronians seem to have zoom via dilation of the "pupil". However things like what Ultra Magnus had are merely HUDs that any Cybertronian can acquire, adding onto identification of things, but likely messing with visiblity a tad if used improperly.
TL;DR you are overthinking this and should stop.
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Whirl
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Post by Whirl on Jan 12, 2016 14:25:51 GMT
Besides, Vamp, it's just sci-fi.
Hey, maybe they do see in all colours, including ultra-violet and x-rays and so on, but when it's on the screen obviously we can't see what they see because we don't see what they see, unless of course it were specially adapted for us.
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Vampyricon
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Post by Vampyricon on Jan 12, 2016 15:08:35 GMT
Overthinking? Maybe. Should stop? Never.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2016 18:07:02 GMT
Vamp you're not the resident science nerd, Rikk is.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 2:36:19 GMT
If the writers wanted to find a bit of logic and make the cybertronian optics like human eyes, first, they have to change lighting optics for dark surfaces, or just like a camera. Everything you can get with the light produced by the optics is to get a blurry vision of everything you have since the optics light blocks the light reflected by the surrounding. The same phenomenon can be seen when you try to watch stars when the sun is already set, or when is night, but the street has a big amount of public ilumination, blocking the stars light. In theory, the cybertronians were going to be practically blind using their optics like that. Acording to the last thing, if people wants to get optics working with the rules of reality, they should look something like mtmte Kaon's 'eyes'.
But now going out of biology and going more about the comprehension of users (or just the fandom). Why? because to a human is easier to see its feeling and actions into a character that looks and acts like a human than if we try to same with the personality of a worm. Most of people use to get insects or non mammal characters since they actions are too different than human does, They aren't familiarized with them. If the writers wanted to sympathise with their audience, they had to humanize the character until some points, without mention the overhumanization suffered by the fandom. Even if you like or not the humanization of non human beings (living or not), that goes more into a literature source than science. it's like trying t understand the science behind talking stylized horses who can speak. Also, why to find a scientific explanation in a universe that is know for the lack of sense, logic or and/ continuities in some points? Calm down, dud.
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