Shadowstrike
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Post by Shadowstrike on Jul 14, 2015 19:45:57 GMT
This is designed to review the elemental and conduit powers that are listed in Feenixfire's thread 'Elementals and Conduits: The Truth'. Once confirmed the decisions made here will be added to her thread, as this effects the community in large this will be available for community discussion. As such we request all posts here are kept on task of reviewing this particular topic, posts that veer off subject will be subsequently deleted. In the process we hope to accomplish a number of things.
1: Rebalancing of all elemental and conduit powers to ensure that they are fair for the community at large. This may result in the removal of certain powers if they are deemed overpowered.
2: Setting limits on the abilities associated with a specific elemental or conduits.
3: Creation of any new logical power or inclusion of canon conduit abilities if they are deemed fair for the rp setting.
Current list Elementals Fire Water Earth - Plantlife, Rock, Ground and Minerals Air
Conduits Electrokinesis/Electromagnetism Energon Magnetic Manipulation Neon Manipulation Shape Shifting Gravity Manipulation Psychic power Velocitron speed (Blurr type speed) Beast Control - Jungle Planet Size manipulation
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Shadowstrike
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Post by Shadowstrike on Jul 14, 2015 20:15:05 GMT
Elemental/Conduits I suggest removing.
'Earth - Planetlife and Rock, Ground and Minerals' = I'm not an expert on elementals and to be honest I don't think we've ever tried to explain how they work at all, but this is the one that confuses me the most. I'm especially against control of organics/plantlife even if the community agrees with Earth I think the subset of plantlife needs to go.
Beast Control = Not saying I'm against people owning pets/animals IC but I don't really consider it an ability.
Pretty much all the others I think could be fine as long as they're are specific limits, after all Beechcomber a conduit in IDW couldn't move Cybertron through his magnetic powers.
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Post by Lord Death Wish on Jul 15, 2015 19:05:35 GMT
Meh, I'm cool with the current system.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 1:51:51 GMT
I have my questions with conduits, elementals or whatever they are called. So does they have some kind of internal mechanism, based on the laws of physics (at least, a 70% of it) to use their powers, like engines made to give them that power? or they use a 'kind of magic' to get their powers? I have a character called Whiteclaw that has the ability of freeze everything with his body (specially the servos) but he has a two internal cooling systems, and one of them works with liquid nitrogen and usually I try to investigate everything related with Cryogenia to make my post when he uses his powers. So, he could get into the category of conduit, or he only has be built to control such powers according with the Conduit's story and characteristics? And a suggestion, does conduits must their powers in real life stuff to make their powers kinda realistic (without mention overpowered)? I'm not saying conduits are overpowered, but if they are cybertronians, I would like to see more sci-fi stuff than magic. Sorry if my post looks rude, but I only wanted some answers without offend anyone.
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Post by Heavystrike on Jul 27, 2015 3:30:04 GMT
I personally like the idea of elemental, and conduit powers on the forum, it brings something unique to TFG, something original that's never been done before. But, control over any element, and conduit can be OP to a certain degree, so limits, and restrictions should be placed on the characters. Maybe even consequences for using some of these powers to keep it fair. Original ideas are so hard to come by, but changes are also important for the idea to make sure people aren't being OP, and ruining the fun for others. Again, I in no way think it's a bad idea to have these powers, I just think a balance, and limits should be put in to play to make things fair.
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derikai
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Post by derikai on Jul 27, 2015 3:51:23 GMT
Man I kinda wish TFU still existed so I could look at when Conduits were still technically unique and not the latest fad, this situation is almost as bad as the baby boom of 2013.
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Post by Gearchange on Jul 27, 2015 14:47:23 GMT
Suggestion for rework
So the way fire elementals work is by using their spark to fuel a pilot light, fueled by a combustable gas or fuel they can expel it much like a dragon. Vents or slits can be used to expel it from their servos. Clicking their fingers can cause a spark meaning that they can expel this gas. The faster they expel the gas the hotter the flame, giving you the blue to yellow spectrum. Blue being the hottest flame.
Since a steady flow of a flammable substance is needed there are several ways it can be obtained and used
Predacons, the main fire elemental type who have a built in pilot light and means of storing a gas within them, they can expel this gas through their body. Predacons are able to digest cyber-organic matter and regular organic matter, gasses formed by the digestion process are stored... however if a predacon stores too much it may get trapped, causing a pain in their chest which can lead to pyrosis (heartburn). The gas must be expelled through belching, which causes a stream of fire to emit from their intake.
A. By expelling gas from their mouth and then igniting it.
B. Expelling it through vents in their servos, allowing them to expel small burts of fire.
C. Expelling the gas in their beast form, breathing fire like a dragon.
A predacon may also be able to breathe a flammable substance like coal, thermite or magnesium. Cybertronians may also have this mutation, but they get theirs through energon which is also how predacons can obtain their powers.
But they can also eat flammable metals and expel them out.
Fire elementals rely on offensive tactics, they rely on thermal energy to defeat their enemies.
Water is their main weakness, rendering fire breathing or flamethrowing useless. It puts a real dampener of their abilities.
A fire elemental prefers to warm themselves up by using heat from the sun or geothermal heat.
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Vampyricon
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Post by Vampyricon on Jul 27, 2015 14:51:51 GMT
For the Outliers (I'll call them Outliers), I guess the most important thing is to keep their powers logical.
For example, healing with ice won't work because it would freeze energon, and you can't send electrical signals through it.
My proposal for Elementals:
Keep the second law of thermodynamics intact
Fire: Can start an oxidizing flame if there is oxygen in the air and they use energy proportional to the amount of flame they start, but fluorinating fires need to happen with fluorine or other fluorinating agents.
Water: Anything with the chemical formula H2O, but whether solutes can be transported with it is something that I think should be discussed. Logically, they would since water being polar is what dissolves the substances, and water is what the elementals control.
Air: Can only control a mixture of gas with the percentage composition of a planet's atmosphere? Explained by the fact that air conduits adapt to the planet's environment quickly when air from the atmosphere comes into contact with them. I'm not sure if that is too nerfy.
Earth: Similar to air elementals, only with the crust of the planet and changes upon touching the ground.
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Post by Gearchange on Jul 27, 2015 16:30:27 GMT
Air elementals, more associated with fliers have the ability to use an internal turbine to expel air at high speeds. The turbines can boost air currents through their body meaning they can expel air through their servos or even use their own vehicle turbines to cause high power winds.
Air elementals are quick on their feet in battle, by using pneumatic bursts of air they can deliver fast punches and kicks. However they are also capable of chanelling their air currents into swords expelling high pressure bursts to form a cutting edge.
Air elementals are duelists in nature.
Air elementals fan fires, making them stronger or even divert them, if they have enough endurance they can cause powerful hurricanes.
However they struggle when facing water or ice elementals, a turbine cannot work in cold conditions.
Air elementals can use their turbines to divert air currents, meaning that storms can be used to their advantage.
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derikai
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Post by derikai on Jul 27, 2015 17:18:41 GMT
Though Gear it shouldn't be forgotten that since one elemental/conduit has an advantage over another doesn't mean that conduit would beat every oppenent using an element weak to theirs, as skill and experience will still more likely beat out an elemental advantage even if barely.
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Scorn
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Post by Scorn on Jul 27, 2015 17:34:13 GMT
I don't believe the direction this should be going is, ''Setting strict rules for how each power will work'' as Gearchange is doing.
Instead, I think the real question here is, ''Do we allow magic?''
Because with just that simple question answered, you can effectively end every argument about this topic. While also giving the players the freedom to think up cool and interesting ways their power works.
Taking an example from Gearchange would be predacons' fire breath. My version of this is that my predacon has a massive fusion reactor powering her whole body, and a byproduct of this reactor is plasma. To remove this plasma, she launches it out of her mouths as fire breath.
But, a different person might use an entirely different way to shoot flaming gas out of their throat. It's all up to the person writing.
But what is up to everyone, is how they're writing it.
I suggest scraping this thread, and making a new one titled, ''Should we allow Magic in our universe?'' because as I've stated before in this post, that is the root of all your problems.
Food for thought and such.
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derikai
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Post by derikai on Jul 27, 2015 19:31:13 GMT
Honestly fee has always been the central part of the conduits as she was the first to be one, no had a problem with it back then and honestly no had no real problem with until it got out of hand. The conduits are her baby she should be allowed to have her say in it, it was her baby that just got abused.
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Ulti
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Post by Ulti on Jul 27, 2015 19:44:01 GMT
Magnetic conduits utilize an internal set of electromagnetic generators to create and manipulate existing magnetic fields. This means they can attract and repel any metal away from another metal. Due to the fact the generators are of cybertronian design and thus technologically advanced, they can manipulate both ferrous and non-ferrous metals, however to manipulate non-ferrous metals uses more energy than manipulating ferrous ones.
When moving larger objects or moving objects intricately the generators need a higher energy output and will drain more heavily on the user's spark.
The generators can be overcharged so that the user can fire EMP beams, but the duration and area of effect on the beam are affected by the users concentration and power output.
The only metal that cannot be manipulated by Magnetic conduits are Cybertronian Bio-metal, aka what cybertronians are made up of. External armor however is still normal metal and thus can be manipulated, but due to their intricate shapes they are harder to manipulate.
Finally in an exception to the previously stated rule, Magnetic conduit's powers can be used on themselves to repel or attract metal to them, and in rare cases repulse themselves from the ground like levitation.
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If I can also suggest removal of any powers, I'd suggest Psychic (They're using their brains to lift things, not very sci-fi and easily abusable) and I second all of the ones that were suggested to remove in Shadow's first post.
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Post by Gearchange on Jul 27, 2015 19:49:34 GMT
If this was to do with me then I apologise fully... i know how some people have referred to burnout as going "super saiyan..."
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Post by Supernova Mavrix on Jul 27, 2015 19:57:06 GMT
*Shrugs* It wasn't just you, it was Sy as well.
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Post by Gearchange on Jul 27, 2015 20:34:37 GMT
Well I've been discussing this with a few of the members on the skype chat and I have come to clear decision over this matter...
Elementals will receive a small re-writing... maybe to accomodate a little more science into it, they will be able to bend the elements to their will.
Elementals will also recieve limitations, including how well they last in battle with their Endurance skill.
I shall be posting another thread in the RP discussion to allow you to have a say on what happens.
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Thrasher
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Post by Thrasher on Jul 27, 2015 23:16:26 GMT
My turn for input!
I think that the elemental and conduit powers should be explained better, as to not sound like magic power. I propose "Matter Manipulators". Some Cybertronians are gifted with inherent devices inside their frames, these devices give them innate control over a specific type of matter or energy. Due to the space needed for these however, such mechs and femmes would be without integrated weaponry unless they choose to surgically remove the manipulators.
With this explanation, elementals and conduits don't have to be heavily redesigned and thought out again to explain their powers properly. It relies simply on Sci-fi stuff and suspension of disbelief to work.
As for individual powers, I have gone over the list and thought of which ones should stay, and which should go. A 'banned' one means I think they should be removed.
Elementals: Allowed:
Fire
Fire Elementals can create fireballs, streams of fire, walls of fire, and the like. Their abilities cannot stop moving objects or function defensively outside of warding people away.
Water/Ice
Merged into one as they made less sense seperate. Water elementals can control and manipulate fluids, and in some like water, freeze them into ice for various shapes. As Ice isn't fluid, they cannot directly manipulate it, they must say, shoot water at high speed, then turn it into ice before impact.
Earth
Earth elementals can manipulate the ground, creating objects and crumbling rock. They cannot fire projectiles, but can create sinkholes or other methods for attack. If they need a wall of rock or a tunnel made, they do it.
Wind
Wind elementals can manipulate gasses to move or pressurize them. Through this, they can create air cushions to soften blows, or move air out of their way to reduce air friction. Though unable to directly attack with their powers, they have various utilities.
Banned: Plant, Beast
These were chosen for banning due to not flowing well with the spirit of Transformers. They just don't feel right.
Conduits: Allowed:
Electricity
Electric Conduits are capable of powers such as shooting lightning, serving as wires between two points, powering machines, etc... Although they can be dangerous, they can't hit anyone in the air above them, and are only immune to electricity when focusing as a wire for it.
Sonics
Sonics Conduits can create or absorb sound waves. Although not able to physically damage people, they can deafen them with piercing and dizzying noises, or silence their movements and guns to avoid being noticed.
Magnetism
Magnetic Conduits have the power to pull and push metal objects away, turn things into magnets, wipe data drives, etc... Their powers are highly utility based, but can be used defensively. However, they cannot pull things larger than them, their smaller bodies would get pulled up to the object instead.
Light
Light Conduits could manipulate and generate lightwaves. This can lead to things such as becoming blindingly bright, hiding in shadows like cloaking, creating mirages, etc... They wouldn't be able to harm enemies unless they were focused enough to create a laser.
Psychic(Radio?)
Psychic Conduits could telepathically speak to people, cause headaches, confuse enemies, etc... They would lack actual damage abilities likely.
Banned: Energon, Gravity, Shape Shifting
These were chosen to be banned as they were deemed to have too much potential for being overpowered.
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Post by Gearchange on Jul 28, 2015 13:27:37 GMT
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